breakpointalpha 11 hours ago

This article appears to be a coordinated attack on Perplexity.

Also posted today is this HN thread:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49536375

Containing this link:

https://trellner.com/reports/manufactured-sources-behind-ai-...

Which has the exact same layout and very similar About page as "trellner.com"

https://hausresearch.com/about/

https://trellner.com/about/

  • burningChrome 11 hours ago

    Is it just me or am I seeing more and more of this stuff happening on HN?

    • sarkarghya 11 hours ago

      i am actually curious how they get upvoted though? Are the bots really out of control

  • hex4def6 11 hours ago

    Agree.

    >>Both URLs were registered yesterday!<<

    The "Leadership" photos all look the same, with the AI-airbrushed style. Also amazing how they both only have three people. What a coincidence.

    I can't find any of the supposed "Leadership" team on Linkedin. Some of them have unusual names, which cut through the hundreds / thousands of results.

    It's a worrying how easily this sort of BS is becoming. It takes far more time to debunk it then to create it. Now you could basically script this and have 100 pages by this time tomorrow, with different styles and URLs and leadership teams (along with professional portraits)...

    If they'd let the URLs age a bit, and maybe not registered them on the same day, used slightly more common names, and changed the styles, it would have been much harder to definitively debunk.

    • tecleandor 8 hours ago

      The user that posted this hasn't commented in HN since more than two years ago. Their previous submissions had nothing to do with this (and they were mostly posts from their blog).

      Smells like the user has been hacked.

wrs 14 hours ago

Same is true of Google search “summaries” where quite often I click on the link provided and it doesn’t support the statement Google made.

BTW, this post would be more convincing if it wasn’t written in Claude voice itself!

  • chicken-stew 13 hours ago

    There’s a fun variation in W-Europe that google needs to spend some time on:

    Northern Belgium and the Netherlands have web content in the same language. But google uses the content in one lump. Problem is when you search for employment/fiscal/legal/… you constantly get content that applies to the wrong nationality.

    • ozlikethewizard 12 hours ago

      How do you think us brits feel?

      • chicken-stew 12 hours ago

        I honestly thought they solved the brit/u.s. stuff years ago.

  • taeric 13 hours ago

    This is true of a ton of online discourse. Worse, when the headline of a claim doesn't even match the article it is fronting. I've seen more than a few articles that basically contradict the headline, but end in a "despite all evidence, we think it is correct to say X."

  • darth_avocado 13 hours ago

    I don’t know if Claude performs similarly from a percentage standpoint, but if you’re using it for search (online or personal docs or wikis), it often also just makes things up.

    When you point it out, it’ll do the “ohh you’re absolutely right!” bs. Marketing material and management that believes the material wants to pretend that AI agents are junior employees, but forget that junior employees get fired for doing something like this.

  • croes 12 hours ago

    It was true even before AI summaries.

    The search result showed a paragraph containing the searched word, the website did not

  • eitally 12 hours ago

    This has become a common pattern in my Claude & Gemini usage. Always require citations, then check those citations to validate they actually contain the information/data the LLM's output claims. Claude, in particular, seems to make massive logic jumps and trust tertiary data sources way more than it should.

  • ok123456 12 hours ago

    Google putting AI search summaries is the worst of all worlds.

    You need cheap, fast inference to put on a search results page and finish near the deadline (~3 seconds). Cheap, fast inference is more likely to get stuff wrong. No one is happy.

    • boothby 12 hours ago

      > No one is happy.

      My understanding of Google politics is that the small number of search team members who implemented any given 6-month-old feature will be happy as they will have been promoted away from the team and not responsible for maintenance nor quality.

    • ossopite 11 hours ago

      I'm curious how google think about the damage this does to the perception of the quality of their AI tools. Every second google search I do reinforces the association "google AI is crap" because you can't help but see it there at the top of the page. Surely this perception hurts Gemini adoption across the board?

    • wrs 4 hours ago

      I was quite happy when I could type search keywords in, Google searched for relevant pages with those keywords, and I went and read those pages. Haven’t really been happy since they broke it quite a while ago.

  • epistasis 11 hours ago

    Never believe the citations in Google summaries, I can count on a single hand the time I have found a correct citation.

    It's not 2/3 correct, it's <1% correct, in my experience. Maybe it's because I check things that sound off more frequently, but even random checks have not panned out well.

    Anybody relying on Google AI summaries is misinforming themselves.

  • notahacker 11 hours ago

    Those summaries (and Bing is at least as culpable) are mostly only good for comedy value. Most favourite genre: returns picture of someone you know alongside biography of completely unrelated person. Least favourite genre: useful stat supposedly cited from a linked reliable source (but turns out to actually be a different stat in the reliable source)

nightpool 11 hours ago

I don't even know if I disagree with this post, but this seems really astroturfed. Why are there two anti-Perplexity articles from independent research firms with identical websites on the front-page of HN right now, submitted by the same person? Am I going crazy?

(see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49536375, left a comment there also)

abdullahkhalids 14 hours ago

If you are building your own harness that does correct citations, is the correct thing to give AI access to some deterministic tool that allows it to actually copy paste parts of documents its reading (with links), rather than stochastic reproduction that they do by default?

  • realsarm 13 hours ago

    You can just look at nouswise or nblm. They do have such harness behind.

  • clickety_clack 13 hours ago

    That’s what I did when I built my stuff. I have deterministic content with AI commentary, where it seems most people are doing this crazy thing of sending data through the model. I can’t understand it.

  • rahimnathwani 12 hours ago

    I did something similar for structured text extraction. I added markers throughout each source document and then, for each piece of info I wanted, I asked the LLM to provide two separate fields:

      xyz
      xyz_citation
    

    The latter was just the node number. So then my code could extract the exact snippet, instead of trusting the LLM to quote something verbatim.

Gecko4072 14 hours ago

I noticed this personally. Saw a citation with a preview for source A, which I knew was reliable. Checked, and it referenced a Reddit article and various other less reliable sources. Was a direct citation too that actually wasn't.

betree 14 hours ago

100% my experience with this service. The intent is good, but it seems they're still in the "fake it until you make it" stage.

  • automatic6131 13 hours ago

    >The intent is good, but it seems they're still in the "fake it until you make it" stage

    Please notice the internal contradictions here.

  • vikramkr 13 hours ago

    > the intent is good

    What is that supposed to mean? They're trying to be an llm search engine that's not some radical new concept

  • hek2sch 13 hours ago

    To be honest perplexity does nothing to make sure it's answer are correct let alone the citations. They just look plausible. For anything little bit serious I use nouswise or nblm that sometimes abstain instead of making things up.

slaw3 11 hours ago

Unsurprising, if you’ve ever clicked some of these citations they always seemed like they’re from the back alley of the internet

Now do OpenEvidence :)

gamblor956 14 hours ago

This is why lawyers have been getting in trouble using AI to review case law or (worse) to generate documents.

It creates citations and references that look close enough to be plausible but are just made up of thin air. CA passed a law explicitly requiring lawyers to review AI-generated documents that is now before the governor for signing (previously, lawyers were ethically expected to review documents submitted to the court or provided to clients but that doesn't have the same level of force as an explicit requirement).

motbus3 14 hours ago

I felt that myself. And I have the same problem with gemini

cmiles8 13 hours ago

This plus AI just citing AI slop. Theres a real downward spiral unfolding with the quality of information available on the internet.

wopwops 12 hours ago

My favorite is hallucinated slop with sources that 404.

mandolingual 12 hours ago

"The unit above is the citation, not the claim." The RPM of the slop ouroboros ever rises.

asmodeuslucifer 13 hours ago

That's the one that powers Truth Social

Trump Media and Technology Group announced that it partnered with Perplexity to test and integrate an AI search feature, referred to as Truth Social AI or Truth Search AI, directly into the Truth Social platform.

(I just use the free account from truth+ to waste their money)

how do you reverse a linked list in python

Answers Sources Use either an iterative pointer-reversal approach or a recursive approach. The standard iterative version is the most common and runs in (O(n)) time with (O(1)) extra space:

class ListNode: def __init__(self, val=0, next=None): self.val = val self.next = next

def reverse_list(head): prev = None curr = head

    while curr:
        nxt = curr.next
        curr.next = prev
        prev = curr
        curr = nxt

    return prev

If you already have a Python list, reversing it is simpler with slicing: items[::-1], but that is not a linked list reversal.

tempfile 14 hours ago

BS machine produces BS; in other news water is wet and sky is blue.

  • Spivak 14 hours ago

    What's surprising about this is that you can get the bullshit machine to produce correct externally validate citations. It's not particularly hard either—it's one of the first things you build when you give an LLM access to a body of documents/search. So for a large public service to whiff like this is certainly a stain on their credibility.

    • delichon 14 hours ago

      On the other hands it's a boost to their credibility that they make their mistakes easier to evaluate than their competition does. It would be worse if they had a similar error rate without openly providing references. Kudos to Perplexity for including more empirical attack surface.

    • tempfile 13 hours ago

      > you can get the bullshit machine to produce correct externally validate citations

      How?

      • MarkusQ 12 hours ago

        By training it on a whole bunch of examples with valid external citations, to the point where it's able to hallucinate something that's valid. Of course, it won't always work, which is the point of TFA.

      • pessimizer 12 hours ago

        I assume by forcing them to validate their citations with a deterministic tool.