points by bryanrasmussen 6 days ago

I think it is somewhat weird that nobody put Twain in.

I could also see someone suggesting Hemingway, although I don't buy it.

Hart Crane at this point in time seems somewhat secondary, so that was surprising.

The Tracy Chapman thing seemed seriously like a troll, I could definitely agree to a black Homer, but then I guess it would be Langston Hughes or James Baldwin as my choices.

To suggest someone though who has the name recognition for American literature that Homer had for the Greeks, it would need to be Twain. You can't really have a great national writer that hardly anybody in the nation can name.

etempleton 1 day ago

This falls into the great American author conversation and for that I would probably have to say Mark Twain or John Steinbeck. If you want to talk about lasting influence on the large literary world it is probably Edgar Allan Poe.

Tracey Chapman is an all time great, but beyond a few song probably doesn’t rise to the American Homer status. I don’t think I would put a songwriter forward for that but if you did it would have to be Dylan.

  • matt_daemon 1 day ago

    Dylan came to mind after reading the Chapman answer, not least because of his 2016 Nobel Prize in Literature "for having created new poetic expressions within the great American song tradition"

legitster 6 days ago

Twain is a good choice, but he also works against the mythology of America. His whole thing was popping bubbles and making grounded stories that work against the backdrop of Americana.

Tracy Chapman is a pretty trolly answer, but I suspect the real answer might very well be a musician or filmmaker, not a writer.

  • oliculipolicula 5 days ago

    Hmm

    Wheres the evidence that Homer work ed for the mythology of Dark Age Greece?

    If you say its his popularity..

    (I would cite the Cyclics as counter evidence)

    For filmmaker: itd have to be someone whom you can imagine (unironically) reconstructing Adams or other actual American heroes

    So..

    Tom Hanks

    • krapp 5 days ago

      As far as I know, it's contested whether Homer even existed as an individual at all. "Homer" might be a collective title for various unknown authors.

    • throw0101a 1 day ago

      > Tom Hanks

      Recency bias? Why not Jimmy Stewart? Gregory Peck? Humphrey Bogart? Paul Newman, Robert Redford?

    • kstenerud 1 day ago

      I'd actually put one in for Clint Eastwood.

      Although most popular knowledge about him revolves around his earlier acting career (Westerns, Dirty Harry), you'll notice a distinct change in many of his films once he started directing.

      * Play Misty for Me

      * Breezy

      * Unforgiven

      * A Perfect World

      * The Bridges of Madison County

      * Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil

      * Mystic River

      * Million Dollar Baby

      * Changeling

      * Gran Torino

      * American Sniper

      * Sully

      * The Mule

      • samudrijan 1 day ago

        The American medium is film/TV. The Godfather is the great American novel. A story about immigrants moving to America and starting a family business.

        • matwood 1 day ago

          Mostly agree, but I think the modern medium is film/TV, not just American. Also, apparently The Godfather book wasn't very good, but I've seen the movie so many times.

        • assimpleaspossi 1 day ago

          Today it might be but it wasn't always. I still remember curling up with a good book and I still do today. I know a lot of younger people might not even have a library card or go looking for a good novel to read.

      • srean 1 day ago

        Not to forget

        Letters from Iwo Jima

        Flags of our Fathers.

        He certainly took me by surprise by the depth of his offerings, given that I used to know him as blondie with no name and for dirty harry.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_with_No_Name

      • assimpleaspossi 1 day ago

        Clint Eastwood didn't write any of those. He's an actor, director and producer of other people's work.

        • coldtea 1 day ago

          Actor and Director and Producer would be more than enough for everybody. Especially combined with several Oscar wins as director and producer, and even Oscar nominations as actor (on top of iconic roles).

          But he has also been an OST composer for some films.

          • assimpleaspossi 1 day ago

            The point is a Homer or Twain, etc, were original authors of works and Eastwood was not an author of any of those works. If an unknown actor portrayed the lead in a Huckleberry Finn film, that would not elevate that actor to the level of a Mark Twain as an author.

            • coldtea 16 hours ago

              As an author no.

              But as a director, they could be elevated to the status of creator, and perhaps directing is the truer American art form rather than ...epic poetry or the novel. Which speaks to the core of the question at a different level.

              Besides, Homer didn't write his own plots either, he adapted original screenplays, so to speak!

  • colordrops 1 day ago

    Kubrick

    • coldtea 1 day ago

      British.

      • pchristensen 1 day ago

        He’s from NYC

        • coldtea 16 hours ago

          And T.S. Elliot was a Bostonian, but adopted British!

          Kubrick made all his iconic movies (except Spartacus and Paths of Glory) while settled in Britain, and shot most of them in British studios.

  • B1FF_PSUVM 1 day ago

    > the real answer might very well be a musician or filmmaker, not a writer.

    Walter Disney, obviously.

    Well, it will probably take at least another century for the fact to hit.

    • rayiner 1 day ago

      I think that’s correct. One way to look at it: when the Greek world expanded geographically, the new people tried to connect themselves with the Homeric stories (as did the Romans). Whose stories serve that function today? Disney.

      • GolfPopper 1 day ago

        Really? Advertising/Marketing aside, "What's up doc?" would seem to have a much bigger share of the zeitgeist, even today, than the Mouse.

        • oliculipolicula 1 day ago

          Hollywood may only think that there are any Pacific Islanders today who want to be Auliʻi Cravalho, but every allied nation hopes to get their own Emmett Brown?

    • dragontamer 1 day ago

      Stan Lee probably had more influence than Walt Disney in terms of how Americans see themselves and how people around the world sees us.

      Walt Disney is overwhelmingly about older stories (Cinderella, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty), and not anything I feel distinctly "American".

      The most popular and timeless properties out of Disney (ex: Mickey Mouse) aren't really telling stories or setting cultural trends IMO. Meanwhile, Superman and Spiderman (Okay, I know Stan Lee only partially had influence on Spiderman...) are closer to what people see as distinctly "American".

      • LarsDu88 1 day ago

        You mean Jack Kirby right? LoL

        • dragontamer 1 day ago

          Its not like Walt Disney personally wrote or drew all his stuff either. Stan Lee was closer to actually making the story than Walt Disney.

          But yeah, Jack Kirby would be closer than the other two.

      • jasonfarnon 1 day ago

        "Meanwhile, Superman and Spiderman (Okay, I know Stan Lee only partially had influence on Spiderman...) "

        it's not like he had anything to do with superman

      • coldtea 1 day ago

        >Stan Lee probably had more influence than Walt Disney in terms of how Americans see themselves and how people around the world sees us.

        Seriously doubt it.

        Both "how Americans see themselves and how people around the world sees them" was established way before both the MCU and before superhero comics became anything else than a preoccupation of the nerdy niche.

        In the 60s, and 70s, and 80s, few fucks were given around the world for the Marvel comic universe (they still sold somewhat, just not that important culturally), and it was definitely not how people got to perceive the US: hollywood, the western, rock n' roll, all those were 100x more important. And Disney was way more important than Marvel at the time too.

        • dragontamer 1 day ago

          What work of Disney (company, not the man per se...) is more influential on the modern American Psyche (today, in 2026) than Ironman, X-Men or Spiderman?

          Moana? Sleeping Beauty? Mickey Mouse?

          The only major "American identity" film I can think of was Princess and the Frog. Maybe Big Hero 6 (at least the San Francisco half).

          -----------

          The others are correct in that Mark Twain is probably the real answer. But I'm thinking of a modern media (film, comic books, etc. etc).

          Maybe Wicked and Wizard of Oz counts as two sides of American culture. A push and counter push.

          --------

          Sleeping Beauty? That's French. Beauty and the Beast? Also French.

          Great Mouse Detective? British. Alice in Wonderland? British.

          Pinocchio? Italian.

          • anamax 1 day ago

            In the spirit of “The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.” - James D. Nicoll

            Yes, Sleeping Beauty, et al were originally from "not the US" countries, very few people outside those countries remembers that. Instead, they're Disney, or at least US.

            • dragontamer 21 hours ago

              Counter point: the opening song of Beauty and the Beast starts with "Bonjour".

              Basil of Baker Street (Great Mouse Detective) literally saves the Queen of England.

              Robin Hood and The Sword in the Stone are also similarly very, very British. No one can possibly confuse the issue.

          • coldtea 16 hours ago

            >What work of Disney (company, not the man per se...) is more influential on the modern American Psyche (today, in 2026) than Ironman, X-Men or Spiderman?

            All of them. None of those MCU movies really did anything to the "american psyche", forgettable entertainment.

            And even if they had done, the question was "in terms of how Americans see themselves and how people around the world sees us". Nobody sees Americans in in 2026 the way Stan Lee or MCU saw them. Not even themselves. How they have been seen in general wasn't determined in 2026 or 2020 or 2000, but in the 20th century. And even how they're seen and see themselves in 2026 is not defined by the MCU either.

            Concerning the general view on US, Disney movies (especially including Pixar) have had much more influence. But I mentioned other even more important things: Hollywood in general (pre-MCU, from early film to John Ford, and to Copolla and Scorsese), the western and the idea of the west/'frontier', rock n' roll...

            >Sleeping Beauty? That's French. Beauty and the Beast? Also French. Great Mouse Detective? British. Alice in Wonderland? British. Pinocchio? Italian.

            In their Disney treatment they're 100% American.

  • dnautics 1 day ago

    popping inflated egos is the mythology of America

    • sebastiennight 1 day ago

      A single word could be removed from that sentence and it would immediately find widespread agreement

      • coldtea 1 day ago

        yeah, the first one :)

      • dnautics 1 day ago

        nah. the us certainly has a lot of inflated egos, but the mythology is not like that, consider abraham lincoln, Washington "cincinnatus of the west", paul bunyan, johnny appleseed, etc.

  • api 1 day ago

    Are you sure that works against the mythology of America?

    Questioning authority and mythology is very American.

  • dredmorbius 1 day ago

    Film (and television) seems studiously underrepresented given the presence of authors, playwrights, poets, and musicians. Musicals are also absent.

    I'd also suggest that cultural impact plays a strong part in Homer's prominence. The American Homer would probably be older rather than more recent (at least by present reckoning).

    Francis Ford Coppola / Mario Puzo, The Godfather; Michael Curtiz, Casablanca; Steven Speilberg; Orson Welles, Citizen Kane; Richard Rodgers and Oscar Hammerstein, Oklahoma!, South Pacific, The Sound of Music, etc., might make my list.

bee_rider 1 day ago

I think Tracy Chapman is not a troll choice, but a prediction. It is an interesting pick that highlights that highlights that all the picks are predictions, given the age of the country.

I think it is probably not a prediction that will end up right, because music is sort of limited by changing musical styles. But it is an interesting one.

sva_ 1 day ago

> I could also see someone suggesting Hemingway, although I don't buy it.

Some of his works are already in the public domain in the US and can be found on Project Gutenberg, so you may not have to buy.

paradox460 1 day ago

Twain or Steinbeck. I'd say anyone else is folly

  • cestith 1 day ago

    Even Bob Dylan?

    • mythrwy 1 day ago

      Especially Bob Dylan. Nasal whining isn't historical America.

      • cestith 1 day ago

        I haven’t heard Homer’s voice. There’s more to being a songwriter than vocal talent, though.

lubujackson 1 day ago

Whitman was first in my mind, he invented free verse poetry after all, embodying the American wilderness in form before content.

If we are going to include musicians, Tracy Chapman indeed seems like a troll when have the significantly more impactful Bob Dylan, who dramatically altered the musical and political discourse at a key time in American history. Tracy Chapman... had a few good hits?

riffraff 6 days ago

But this is about poetry, would Twain qualify as a poet?

My vote would go to Edgar Lee Masters because the spoon river anthology is one of the few poetry books I actually read, and it exemplifies a lot of the American spirit, IMVHO.

  • FeteCommuniste 6 days ago

    The vast majority of Cervantes's work was not in poetry, either. I think the idea is more "emblematic national storyteller" than poet in the narrow sense.

  • maxerickson 1 day ago

    It's at least arguably about storytelling. You don't sit around the fire talking in verse for your entertainment.

    For instance, one of Homer's works is in the news due to a film being made of it.

    I suppose that suggests the Coen brothers.

    • bryanrasmussen 1 day ago

      Well, yes, the Coen brothers did do the best version of the Odyssey for screen after all.

anthuswilliams 1 day ago

I had the same thought, but it appears they are explicitly asking about poets, not just literary figures and authors.

Poe seems like an obvious candidate no one listed.

rayiner 1 day ago

It’s obviously Twain.

deboboy 1 day ago

The lowest person in a society is a doorway to the structure of that society. Twain narrated this regardless of whether we consider it poetry or folkloric fiction.

pdonis 1 day ago

> I think it is somewhat weird that nobody put Twain in.

Twain wasn't a poet. The article specifies right at the start that it's looking for a great American poet.

tracker1 1 day ago

Literally came to say the same... Mark Twain was my first thought here.

bsder 6 days ago

If you're going with songwriters grabbing epic snapshots of life, you're talking about songwriters in the class of Bob Dylan, Stevie Wonder, Bruce Springsteen, or Prince who wrote not just for themselves but others as well and were all pretty prolific in their output.

larodi 1 day ago

Tis surely Twain, but come on, he came ages after Homer and came with civilisation that was not there in America when Homer lived.

The whole idea for looking for America’s …Homer is just super bizarre. Modern (last 150-200 years) of America is not what it was thousands of years ago - it stands on the burial grounds of millions of indigenous people obliterated altogether with their cultural inheritance.

It is questionable even today if American authors bear more the heritage of European literature than anything else.

Homer was 2k years ago. Conquistadors made sure nothing would be left of anything that was 2k years ago. English and French, besides being smarter in the north, dis likewise.

So your American Homer’s legacy perhaps lies buried down in some unmarked indigenous grave.

  • graemep 1 day ago

    > So your American Homer’s legacy perhaps lies buried down in some unmarked indigenous grave.

    There are probably people similar to Homer in someways. However, the thing about Homer is that he influenced literature across most of Europe, North Africa, and much of the Middle East. I do not think any one culture in North America had the wide influence the Greeks did.

    > Homer was 2k years ago.

    Almost 3k years ago, and very likely to have just written down an existing oral tradition that could be much older. The historical events on which the story is based are about a half millennium earlier than Homer.

EGreg 6 days ago

Poe

Twain

skywhopper 1 day ago

Twain seems the obvious choice, so yeah I’m disappointed they didn’t even mention him. Given that they invited submissions, I’d have loved to see a bigger variety, rather than two Frosts and two “no one”s. Those are both good choices, but not super interesting to read two of when other choices are left out.

cgyvbunji 1 day ago

> I think it is somewhat weird that nobody put Twain in

Edit: Lots of hate here. The question was why people didn't suggest Twain to be "America's Homer", and I answered the question: Twain is controversial, at least for some schools, and for someone such as CK, which should tell you something. Let's try not to shoot the messenger. If you didn't balk when you reached this line the first time you read the book, there might actually be something wrong with you.

"He [Mark Twain] also said 'There once was a man named [N-word] Jim,' so not everything he said was perfectly amazing" - Louis CK

  • assimpleaspossi 1 day ago

    And you're going to quote a guy accused of sexual misconduct? CK will never be a Homer. But bringing that quote up from a piece of literature, not just something he said, is being ridiculous.

    • somenameforme 1 day ago

      It's also amazingly ignorant. The entire point of Jim in Huck Finn is the extreme irony between superficiality and reality. Everybody in Huck Finn is horrible, including Huck himself, yet they mostly all paint themselves as the most honorable and just of people - and in most cases probably believe it.

      The one exception is Jim who everybody just casually dismisses, yet he's the one truly good hearted and upstanding character in the entire book. It's a lesson about the difference between what people pretend to be like, and what they are really like. Which makes the critiques of the book, often focusing on pejoratives towards Jim, just so unbelievably ironic. It's the deterioration of thinking in society.

      • cgyvbunji 1 day ago

        > The one exception is Jim who everybody just casually dismisses, yet he's the one truly good hearted and upstanding character in the entire book

        Sure but you have to read the book first to know that, whereas the reader gets slapped in the face right away with the racial slur while reading the book for the first time, which is why some schools don't read Twain. This thread is about why people might not pick him to be the "America's Homer", I'm not trying to say anything more than that.

    • graemep 1 day ago

      If you are not going to quote people accused of (or even known to be guilty of) sexual misconduct that covers a lot of authors and creative people in general.

  • bryanrasmussen 1 day ago

    https://medium.com/luminasticity/huck-finn-one-of-the-greate...

    "In the world of the book Huck Finn is not respected, although he comes close at times to it, contravening all the values of a society that should be considered corrupt by ours.

    And in our world Huck Finn is not respectable and must be continually defended to keep from being totally thrown out of the literary society, because contravening the deep values of his corrupt society, he does have some of the surface mannerisms."