I'm convinced, but then all the links to actually acquiring the bulbs are broken or for wholesalers.
The city of Flagstaff page says the following:
Though it is still generally true that any LED product described as “Amber” will have lower impacts, as of early 2024 we cannot recommend any particular product as the quality control of the consumer-grade product lines is not providing products with consistent spectra.
It looks like this is still a nascent product line for residential lighting.
There are quite a few homes in my area that still use gas lamps at night. The HOA is pretty good about sending letters to people who install 100w 5500k led cannons in their exterior fixtures.
There is no "person A's sky only receives light from lamp A and person B's sky only receives light from lamp B" repeated 500,000 times. Both will make their own "simply existing in a city should not..." and "they can take that upon themselves" arguments about it and the problem that it's about what should be done with public space rather than the inside of their homes will still remain.
The article would be a lot shorter if it were as easy as individuals taking on their own citywide lighting choice and perspective. Signed as someone who now lives in a much, much smaller "city" than before :).
Your argument is that someone stating "night time should be night time" has the same standing as someone stating "night time should be day time," just because neither person owns night time?
People feel their perspective about outdoor light is the obviously principled one which is uncontestably based on obvious realities everyone should agree of until they start talking at the bar about which hour offset the local clock should be in winter.
The posted page goes through great effort to frame the problem from every perspective it possibly can precisely because it has spent enough time on the topic to understand how people won't agree it does/doesn't make obvious sense for a city to be dark because the sun went down. It's not because the author forgot to think of using a 3 line comment declaring it obvious instead, they know many people have many different angles they consider the important reasons it should be light/dark.
It does link a couple studies to back up that claim. Critiques of those studies or evidence for the opposite would contribute to the conversation; this does not.
Used to use this to great effect for capture the flag when I was a kid. We used to do it across the whole neighborhood. We realized that standing in shadows cast near street lights were excellent places to just stand and watch the other team. The bright light makes your eyes adjust and the shadows from nearby tree trunks become black voids.
There are lots of safety arguments for street lighting.
For one, as a city dweller, I would be absolutely terrified walking around at night, having to rely on a flashlight to see anything. Not just a "scared of the dark" thing, but good outdoor lighting discourages things like robberies and assaults. And sure, cars could just use their headlights, but still, visibility in populated areas would be very bad, and safety for pedestrians at night would be awful.
The site links a couple studies coming to a different conclusion about crime. Feeling safer doesn't necessarily mean you are safer.
As for pedestrian safety, button-activated lights over crosswalks are one potential alternative to always-on outdoor lighting. It might lead to a considerable safety improvement once people got used to the light being an indication that pedestrians are likely present.
I’ve been in cities with inadequate street lighting, and driving in them at night is terrifying. Car lights are not an adequate substitute on a busy road. I agree that in small towns and the country, street lighting is unnecessary.
There are some nice curb-cut effects of dark-sky lighting:
- The circadian rhythms of birds and nocturnal creatures are less severely affected
- Amber lights produce less insomnia
- The dumb streetlight across the street doesn't blind me from my bedroom window
I'm convinced, but then all the links to actually acquiring the bulbs are broken or for wholesalers.
The city of Flagstaff page says the following: Though it is still generally true that any LED product described as “Amber” will have lower impacts, as of early 2024 we cannot recommend any particular product as the quality control of the consumer-grade product lines is not providing products with consistent spectra.
It looks like this is still a nascent product line for residential lighting.
I've not seen a streetlight anywhere that wasn't collimated downward. Traditional neons are amber.
So we had it right well over half century ago as far as street lighting went.
I've seen pretty much every variant of https://i.imgur.com/l9msIIM.jpeg somewhere around most places I've visited in North America/Europe.
There are quite a few homes in my area that still use gas lamps at night. The HOA is pretty good about sending letters to people who install 100w 5500k led cannons in their exterior fixtures.
I wish they made lights monochromatic in one R, one G, one B wavelength, that way they'd be easier to filter out in astrophotography.
Sodium lights were acutally kind of nice because they're mildly filterable with dinodymium glass.
I think the heat differentials and particulates would still make city astrophotography pretty sub par.
I was staying on the main page waiting for something to happen, and then I realize I should scroll down!
I love the concept, but not sure how we can convince everyone to follow.
Many of the links have soft 404s as well. Seems like a dead site.
My only gripe with amber lights is that they make me sleepy easily.
Feature not a bug
Simply existing in a city should not compel you or other creatures to stay awake
If a person wants to stay awake at night then they can take that upon themselves
There is no "person A's sky only receives light from lamp A and person B's sky only receives light from lamp B" repeated 500,000 times. Both will make their own "simply existing in a city should not..." and "they can take that upon themselves" arguments about it and the problem that it's about what should be done with public space rather than the inside of their homes will still remain.
The article would be a lot shorter if it were as easy as individuals taking on their own citywide lighting choice and perspective. Signed as someone who now lives in a much, much smaller "city" than before :).
Your argument is that someone stating "night time should be night time" has the same standing as someone stating "night time should be day time," just because neither person owns night time?
No, they don't actually.
People feel their perspective about outdoor light is the obviously principled one which is uncontestably based on obvious realities everyone should agree of until they start talking at the bar about which hour offset the local clock should be in winter.
The posted page goes through great effort to frame the problem from every perspective it possibly can precisely because it has spent enough time on the topic to understand how people won't agree it does/doesn't make obvious sense for a city to be dark because the sun went down. It's not because the author forgot to think of using a 3 line comment declaring it obvious instead, they know many people have many different angles they consider the important reasons it should be light/dark.
i like the concept but i don't like the stock images
Why can the user only accept, but not reject the cookies? I personally do not care, I block them in the browser.
Why is the "e" in "responsible" on a new line?
why are you asking dang these questions?
(probably just a mistake. I moved the parent to the toplevel now.)
Oops, thanks.
> Too much light ... makes us less safe by creating harsh shadows and giving criminals a place to hide.
LMAO
It does link a couple studies to back up that claim. Critiques of those studies or evidence for the opposite would contribute to the conversation; this does not.
Used to use this to great effect for capture the flag when I was a kid. We used to do it across the whole neighborhood. We realized that standing in shadows cast near street lights were excellent places to just stand and watch the other team. The bright light makes your eyes adjust and the shadows from nearby tree trunks become black voids.
How much crap to go through before finding out what it is? This is like one of those recipe sites
From the article:
> See 6 important reasons for using it, or skip to What is Dark-Sky Lighting?
Also from the article "2 minute read". And I thought that those news about atrophy of attention span are exaggerated.
To be fair, I saw that, I saw the “skip” link, and thought “that’s ok, I’ll just scroll down” on my phone.
It took SO many scrolls to get to the point. So the frustration is justified.
Thanks! We've changed the URL above to jump to that section (submitted URL was https://www.savingourstars.org/darkskylighting ).
The safety argument for street lighting makes me sad. I'd prefer if people just used their phone torches at night.
I used to cycle home in pitch black, watching the stars. Never had any incidents, others would notice me or I them before anything happened
There are lots of safety arguments for street lighting.
For one, as a city dweller, I would be absolutely terrified walking around at night, having to rely on a flashlight to see anything. Not just a "scared of the dark" thing, but good outdoor lighting discourages things like robberies and assaults. And sure, cars could just use their headlights, but still, visibility in populated areas would be very bad, and safety for pedestrians at night would be awful.
The site links a couple studies coming to a different conclusion about crime. Feeling safer doesn't necessarily mean you are safer.
As for pedestrian safety, button-activated lights over crosswalks are one potential alternative to always-on outdoor lighting. It might lead to a considerable safety improvement once people got used to the light being an indication that pedestrians are likely present.
I’ve been in cities with inadequate street lighting, and driving in them at night is terrifying. Car lights are not an adequate substitute on a busy road. I agree that in small towns and the country, street lighting is unnecessary.